But I continue to read what they say and telling me I have to hurry. Seems that first payment in. Well thanks again. Your friend Shirley Benedict. And thanks to my fave podcasters at Skeptics Guide to the Universe, for reblogging my post with the very nice title, What a great story! But I just started my Facebook and Twitter feeds yesterday, so please start following, folks, and give me a like on FB!
Help me get out of the single digits, they look so sad. Friendly atheist! I never knew there was such a thing,it is amazing how so many poor people are blinded and led astray to believe an average person can predict their future and give them hope,that is for the weak and the lost! Pingback: Stargazing: Astronomy, Astrology and Elvis dyke writer. Like Liked by 4 people. Our understanding of science will always be limited, and also with astrology. Financial forecasting history shows this to be true. Why do these things persist? I managed to help you out of the single digits!
I wonder what the proportion is between astrologers who believe in it and those who know they are bluffing. Probably those who believe are better at it, while the bluffers safely can write horoscopes for newspapers and similar tasks. I too am intrigued by the question of how many professionals know or strongly suspect the truth in their hearts. This is an excellent example of how all of us can fall for an incorrect explanation of a phenomenon and all of us have. Well done, Rudolf Smit, for honestly facing your misgivings despite personal cost. Thanks for sharing, Bo Gardiner.
Excellent article and I agree it did take sizeable strength of character for him to admit it and change his way of life, so few people do, especially those still clinging to faith in the face of ever diminishing reasons to. Quite common I suppose. Thanks for your blog it is well written and interesting.
Thanks for your kind words, Mike. And definitely no need to be ashamed of having once been drawn into these things. I suspect nearly all of us have passed through such a period. The best analogy for this situation are pharmaceutical studies. Imagine a drug is found by a handful of small studies, done by companies who stand to profit from it, to have a very small positive effect. Buy It today! If a drug has no possible known mechanism that should allow it to work, even more, much more, is expected of responsible scientists conducting the study.
They are expected to withhold declaring success unless any positive effect measured is significantly more than tiny. One does not announce an extraordinary new completely unexplainable mechanism not found by any other scientist in history, based on only ambiguous results, or small effects that could be due to experimental error. The effect must be clear and unambiguous in such cases. And most importantly, other experimenters must be able to reproduce the same significant effect. Until that happens, the scientific method holds that there can be no declaration of success.
It is way, way too premature for these researchers to announce success, to announce a force exerted by planets and stars on our bodies and destinies that would shatter all understanding of physics today. Very well put, Bo. I only wish we could tell that to, well, every homeopath on Earth… Since they spend all day, every day, declaring and believing in what amounts to such extraordinary success, without ever properly examining any evidence.
He just changed his approach. Also, he still misuses the term science. And, in addition, I have set up my own website Astrology-and-Science which is a fountain of knowledge for all those people, astrologers and skeptics alike, who wish to know more about recent scientific findings about astrology.
In contrast to what hostile skeptics do, we that is, my collaborators and myself do not ignore the good side of astrology. We simply supply the facts as they are. And as regards astrologers, we do not consider the great majority to be charlatans, since most astrologers tend to be nice people whose only sincere desire is to genuinely help their clients. As for me, after twenty odd years I have taken up again the reading of charts now and then, that is , if only to experience again the wonderful feeling when such a reading turns out to be successful. If it is helpful, it is not because astrology itself is helpful, but because astrology sets a scene that helps me to be helpful.
Reblogged this on The Atheist. I have been in the same situation myself and it does not mean astrology is not real, just that astrologers must be more careful. If you want to see the real truth behind astrology and what it is all about you can find out quite a bit at the link below. And yes, it is real science, but it is not easy. Psyche tests are very similar give someone the results from the wrong psyche test and see if they agree. I studied astrology for over thirty years and was going to quit it for the same reasons and then I decided to do some real science.
Please do try to tear it apart. First question, Brian, before anyone spins their wheels: Are there any actual astronomers in this group? That is, who have advanced degrees from reputable universities in astronomy, and done astronomical research published in peer-reviewed astronomical journals? Myself and I have published many articles in many different venues. There is a soon to be published peer reviewed article on planetary aspects and earthquakes. You are the one with the camouflage on. Do you have a link to your articles?
Little do non-astrologers know what astrology actually was and still is. The days of the week were named by astrologers, as were the months. We all use and pay homage to astrology every time we speak of a star, a planet, the name of the sun, any day of any week and any month; every time we cook and talk about herbs and spices; every time we celebrate any religious festival, whether it is Easter, Xmas, any saints day; and any time we watch a TV weather anchor doing a forecast, because all that was started by, and remained for hundreds of years the domain of astrologers.
All weather words come from astrology, also many of words used by a doctor, because years ago doctors had to be qualified astrologers, as also with the trades, like the masons. If you use mathematics at all, you are paying homage to developers of modern mathematics who were astrologers from India, Persia and then Egypt. The guy who invented calculus which eventually enabled man to get into space was an astrologer called Kepler.
Astrology was taught in every European university for years. Universities themselves were started in Arab countries under Islam to teach astrology. All the fathers of modern science were astrologers, like Galileo who was a professor of astrology and mathematics at Padua university, also Copernicus, also Sir Isaac Newton who studied under the astrologer Descartes.
How do we think pyramids got built, back when all builders, designers and rulers were astrologers, if therefore not by astrologers? Every time you look at your watch you are paying homage to astrology. The man who built the Greenwich Observatory, which is the centre of world time, was an astrologer called Flamsteed. His horoscope wheel is embossed prominently on the side of the building, highly visible as you enter. Most of our daily life is rooted in astrological history.
If you think astrology is something divorced from the above, that is only what sceptics say who know zilch about it. Sceptics are often mentally challenged bullies, who use an internet presence to deflect from their own personal problems about anger. Farming was very astrological, because seasons and the calendars to keep track of the seasons were the invention of astrologers. Any farmer is therefore an astrologer; end of story. The business of cold reading and telling fortunes is just that; a consulting business, like the priesthood.
But it is not astrology as an astrologer knows it to be. This is how astrologers survive. By linking science…. Astrology supporters are often bullies too, but what does this pointing this out prove? Aside from the personal attack, your post is a stream of logical fallacy.
No ad hominem because I did not name anyone. Nor did I name all. But if the cap fits, wear it. Astrologers seldom attack the sciences. But science mercilessly attacks astrology, probably because astrology always enjoys more far popularity without even trying. Not many science pages at the back of tabloids and not many scientists setting up booths at fairs. Are you telling me you have no ancestors? Did you suddenly appear? Do not continue defending character attacks on skeptics on this blog if you wish to continue here. Either agree to stop or leave. Many outdated practices were obstacles to the practices that followed.
One could make a good case that astrology, like religion, held back astronomy and the sciences, and delayed their benefits to society. Should we continue taking arsenic too just because it was a predecessor to modern medicine? Do we all necessarily owe our existence to slavery? Is slavery valid because some of our ancestors practiced it? Next time you break a leg or suspect you have cancer, go to an astrologer instead of to a doctor, then. How you perceive the world around you. How you deal with challenges and experiences of everyday life. Your behavior in given circumstances.
The reaction from the astrologers is very telling. No really good arguments, but of course the defector from the gang has every bad quality you may find. I apologized and re-scheduled. What impresses me are people so certain that they have debunked astrology, but have never ever had a professional reading by a certified astrologer. Yes… we have organizations that have 4 and 5 level certification programs.
I wish so-called skeptics would actually investigate the things they want to debunk. It might make them respectable. That fear very easily turns to anger. The answer is not to attack astrologers for being different, but to listen to what astrologers actually say they are about. It is ALL science, which simply means investigative study. Like Liked by 3 people. On an Internet discussion board a few years ago, I announced an experiment, made no claims about my abilities, and offered detailed readings to 40 people who who emailed me their birth info.
And what if you are actually psychic and oblivious to it? Maybe you DID give accurate readings to all those people. Astrology has deeply influenced every cultural and religious tradition of the world since ancient times, and it continues to do so even today. It is a definite part of human heritage, and affirmed by their most sacred traditions. Like Liked by 2 people. No one denied that astrology loomed large in history and remains closely wedded to religion—for better or for worse.
Pingback: If you appreciate the message of a nature-loving, humanistic, progressive, and scientifically skeptical approach to life, please support this blog! Under the Greenwood Tree. The arguments against astrology by Dean are spurious and not based on any kind of science, but rather opinion. It is sad that he discouraged Smit from his practice. Astrology is meant for really, really dumb people who are really gullible and have low IQs. People who believe in astrology generally have something missing from their lives. Most people call it intelligence. I have found that is not all bunkum though most of it, at least as presented by most of the currently active well-known astrologers, is.
Astrology has been so undeniably disproved as it already was hundreds of years ago that it is hard to understand why people are still drawn to it. It staggers the mind that people actually believe in this nonsense. Always has worked. I am not vague in my readings. I am precise and accurate and my clients have affirmed my descriptions, comments and insights. There are many things that exist that science cannot prove, but that does not mean they do not exist. Science needs to ask the right questions. Scientific evidence involves being able to demonstrate the claims made under controlled conditions in a statistically significant way with a high degree of confidence.
Astrology has failed at every attempt at this. Science is a method of understanding reality that is based observations to verify or discount hypotheses. Astrology uses false hypotheses that have historically failed at every attempt at verification. Science forgets that all of its measuring sticks are self created. Science has not managed to figure out how to measure things that do not fit its current limitations.
When you get into sub-atomic or quantum physics, the very act of observing alters the observation. My claim is that astrology exists and it works. As the centuries rolled on, Science got more aware and understanding. But you seem to forget that astrology is as well. For example, dividing the ecliptic circle into twelve and putting people into each of these groups is entirely arbitrary; astrologers could just as easily have divided it into two or twenty groups.
The discussion regarding astrology predicting cyclones and earthquakes is just plain nonsense. First of all, cyclones are cyclical events that occur annually. Fiji experiences severe cyclones every year in a highly predictable way and, historically, many of them have caused widespread destruction. So observing a major cyclone in Fiji hardly demonstrates that astrology has demonstrated anything other than the obvious. New Zealand is comprised of several volcanic islands with a high degree of seismic activity.
Earthquakes occur frequently on the north island and a magnitude 5 earthquake is not uncommon. Claiming that astrology predicted the earthquake would be like claiming that astrology predicted that there would be rain in London sometime this week. Astrology is not a science. It is the antithesis of science. You must be a very skilled scientist. Where did you study astronomy, solar physics, tidal dynamics, electromagnetism, volcanism and meteorology? You used all these things to predict cyclones and earthquakes? If this is true, you are a very special person indeed. My apologies for challenging you.
My hat goes off to you sir. Science is science. Scientists are the most open minded people on earth. They have to be because most of science is counter-intuitive and often without precedent. The most interesting discoveries in science were fraught with notions that were virtually unbelievable at first — concepts like universal gravitation, relativity, quantum physics, quantum field theory, evolution.
But they had one thing in common. They passed the test of scientific scrutiny. History is full of them. This is just complete nonsense. This is really nutty. Would you subject yourself to a couple of very simple introductory college physics problems? These should be very simple for you as you seem to have a remarkable ability in this area. Will you show me your diploma from a reputable university where you learned science so that you can demonstrate your credentials as a scientist?
Provide to me the calculations that you undertook to predict, with pinpoint accuracy, the timing and severity of world events like the earthquake in New Zealand and cyclone in Fiji.
- Unpublished Study of Unaspected Planets (1975).
- january 16 2020 chinese astrology.
- Front Page Podcast;
- Debunking Astrology – The Planets Just Aren’t That Into You.
Me and my colleagues offer to do the equivalent of a peer review of your calculations at no cost to you. So you claim your method is scientific and that you use scientific methods like astronomy, solar physics, tidal dynamics, electromagnetism, volcanism and meteorology in your predictions but you you are unable to answer even a simple question testing even an elementary knowledge in one of these areas. You claim to have expertise in these areas and apply them in a way that appear to surpass the abilities of any modern scientist in making predictions about weather and seismic events, yet you admit that you have not studied the underlying science.
You can call me a bully if you want, but when someone makes outlandish and unsupportable claims, I will challenge them. There have been hundreds of tests of the validity of astrology and there is not one single case where it has proven to be able to predict anything with a degree of accuracy that exceeds random chance. That is the bottom line. I have no interest in censoring you. I will never confuse my Saturnine colleague with my Gemini one, and so on. This is at the most basic level. It also happens that certain generations born in certain years tend to be more successful than others, there is nothing strange about it.
I think he abandoned his belief system too soon…and so extremely as to dismiss all of astrology just because he learned something new about himself.
- Dean's Phantom Time-Twin Study (2003).
- horoscope taurus 12 february.
- leo love horoscope february 7?
- astrology new moon february 8 2020.
Anyone who is working with someone who is at a crossroads and possibly having an identity crisis knows that they may be pliable and agreeable at the moment, but they will quickly conclude whether or not your information was accurate or just mumbo jumbo. Furthermore, if I had to guess, I would say that his progressed chart or long term transits will probably show a major planetary or house shift that accounts for his shift in perspective.
Still, the speed at which he threw in the towel is disappointing. How long is the right amount in your opinion, Alicia? I am writing to thank you for this article and the comments that ensued. It has helped me refine some of my thinking regarding my profession. I am a professional astrologer and have been practicing full-time since Before that I was in academics as an English instructor at the university level for almost 17 years; my PhD is in English. My concentration was in Rhetoric and Composition and my deep interest is in narratives.
This article and discussion is wonderfully rich with overt and embedded narratives that I have used to reflect on my own narrative and the narrative I share with the world at large, through my website, my Facebook page, my book, my tarot deck, and my business card. I stumbled upon this article quite by accident … or maybe not ;-. This article was listed second in my search and I am always interested in transformation stories, especially ones that involve a crisis of identity, so I clicked on it and really enjoyed the story itself and how well Bo wrote it as well as all of her responses.
As I read through the article and all the comments a number of different pieces of information and positions about astrology and science stood out. I was especially caught by the discussion of the Forer effect. When I taught my critical thinking classes, I referenced it as the Barnum effect.
I prefer the Barnum term for its connection to P. Barnum, I like the imagination of wonder connected to the circus that it stirs up because of that name connection to the concept. If so, who comprised the group and how were they determined as appropriate for the control group. If not, why not? Did you happen to supply an astrological chart? Any one would do so long as you kept the calculating information hidden. Of course you could not do that with a professional astrologer. You would have to use our actual chart and then do a cold reading presenting yourself as an professional astrologer.
Did you do that? That would be a very interesting experiment if you did not!
Science Confirms Astrology! | Psychology Today
With a con, only one person actually believes, and the con pretends to believe. In a Forer interchange both participants believe, and I think the distinction is interesting, but I am not sure if results in a different outcome for the person receiving the reading, especially if the con is very adept.
However, I do think it matters what the content of the Forer experience happens to be, whether you lump astrology, tarot cards, palmistry, and so on all in the same category. What I mean is this. Suppose you have someone who is a smoker and they have access to and have read all the science on the hazards of smoking and the eventual outcomes thereof, but they keep smoking. Psychologically speaking, the science is simply not getting it done, at least in terms of convincing them to stop neither are pleas from loved ones ; I am sure the science is able to measure the destruction of their lungs just fine.
Now, on a whim, this person decides to visit an astrologer or tarot card reader and they engage in a Barnum experience. While engaging in that experience — we will use a card reading — the client draws the mother of all tarot cards, you know the one … the Death card. They and the reader connect it to the smoking. The client leaves the session, goes to his or her car gets the pack of cigarettes and throws them in the trash and never smokes again. Now I understand science can explain all that has transpired without acknowledging any validity regarding astrology or tarot, but my point is that the context of the astrology and tarot is part of the requirement of the life changing moment.
This is not really just a thought exercise. So as I was reading all this I did not have any particular epiphany; actually what I am about to write I have said often for years, even before I started doing this work professionally. Astrology is not science, not even a cosmic science. It is an art form that uses the science of astronomy creatively. Oh, and let me add, it is not a psuedoscience either once you stop trying to put in in the science category, pseudo part dies.
Everything not science wants to attach to science because science has such a phenomenal track record … the science of this or that; no wonder scientists get frustrated. But like art, what I do is powerful; it changes lives, for good or ill, just like anything, including science, that is applied or misapplied by human choice.
I am not arguing that its power equals goodness, but neither do I accept that because its not science that means that it equals ill, which is why I practice my craft with a very well-developed skeptical background. The common ground that links us in conversation is the astronomy, the data points.
Using a tropical astrology system not sidereal, so not the constellations, sorry Ophiuchus and the actual position of the points in the solar system, we can agree that Pluto happens to be moving through the sign of Capricorn at the time I am writing. Just that fact, no discussion of meaning.
Independent news email
If I go any farther, your eyes will start to roll. The story is framed a certain way because we are talking about Pluto and Capricorn and not Uranus and not Aries. There is a storytelling cohesiveness to astrology, tarot, and other spiritual practices or creative knowing. Hmm … creative knowing … need to roll that one around on the tongue a few more times. That cohesiveness is what allows astrology to persist and have such strong effects.
We operate within the actual constraint of how the Solar System moves. There are many more places I would like to explore, but there is one that I do want to press. The last nakshtra then would be Jyesta, the eldest, and it covers the last part of the Scorpio. The planet Jupiter, guru, the teacher, transmits the energy of galactic sun in the Vedic system.
Sideral astrology is, therefore, cosmic astrology and covers a broad area. I am sure he knows what he is talking about. I feel that he would fit the bill of a "scientist " by our hard core Indian intellectual standards! Extremes of views only generate terrorists of various kinds, the latest in the list of terrorist is the " scientific fundamentalist" who wants to shoot down any idea that does not fit in with his line of thinking. How would a conventional scientist explain the dramatic effect of intercessory prayer with the patient and doctor being blinded about the prayer on heart attack patients' outcome?
There was a marked reduction in the "prayed for" group compared to a "matched control group" of non-prayed for cohort of patients, done prospectively in an American University hospital, reported in the prestigious Archives of Internal Medicine 25 th October issue on page ? The conclusion of the study, done on a total of patients, was that "remote, intercessory prayer was associated with lower CCU course scores. The result suggests that prayer may be an effective adjunct to standard medical care after a heart attack!
Let us not be the prisoners of the knowledge that accrues from our five senses only. There is much more than what meets the eye in the affairs of this world! We need a new culture in science. Most high priests of science work secretly without any knowledge of humanity's needs. Physics works with highly abstracted goals; but needs a paradigm shift in its attitude to follow a culture that is less obsessed with particles and forces, and more with human beings and our needs. This is supposed to give "integrated, mathematically elegant expression to forces operative in the cosmos.
They claim that this unified superforce would be, in the words of one distinguished physicist, " the fountainhead of all existence. As the TOE theory is hotting up, there is the rise of a deep current of quasi-religious sentiments expressed by another group of equally accomplished physicists that has come up with the "God particle", "Face of God", or "Mind of God" theory! Consequently, high priests of physics and their chelas take on an elevated position to be the custodians of all the wisdom in this universe to preach to the ignorant lay people that life without this kind of science is worthless.
Any dissenting voice is put down with abuses and other extreme methods. Writing in my article Genes, Dreams, and Realities I had predicted that the genome, when unravelled, would surprise all of us and will not give us all the answers to man's ills and might even bring much sorrow in its wake! I was criticized and damned. Curiously, her work is in agreement with Sage Kapila who talks of "Beejaha, beejabaghaha" Chromosomes and genes in the holistic concept of man and his illness.
The Darwin's theory of "Survival of the Fittest" does not stand the test of present day scrutiny. Butterflies are capable of altering the genes of their offsprings inside the womb to make them survive in a hostile environment. Woman could change her baby's organs based on her nutritional environment during the first trimester of pregnancy. But there is a renewed effort to repackage and sell Darwinism by the scientific establishment. Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawson is an attempt in that direction.
The social Darwinist, the socialists, also should realise that the "Class struggle" for existence, after all starts with co-operation inside the class to fight another class. That co-operation could include the hated class also to have peaceful co-existence. The latter could be the best mantra at this time when the world is going through the worst kind of war-man hating man. We need peace academics and scientists, and ministries of peace in governments rather than conflict journalism and war reporting.
Time has come for science to bother about common man's life; in the latter astrology plays a vital role. Let us try and see if it is a science with the assumption that planets play a role in human affairs. Then let us pass judgement-guilty, not guilty, or not proven. Present status of Vedic astrology:. In the present day astrological predictions, charlatans predict the planetary influences, not fully understanding their limitations. In fact, even with the present patchy knowledge one could provide several configurations that could be repeatedly tested to give the same results.
Some time ago a study in Europe was conducted using charts of very successful people. It was seen that in all charts Jupiter or Mars resided on the meridian. Another test is that if one person's ascendent and another's sun or Venus is at the same place in their charts, they have an immediate attraction the moment they see one another. If one wants to give a near correct prediction one has to calculate to see if the same influence of planets is arrived at by the various methods of study, i. Another pain in the neck is the accurate time of birth. Even as little as four-minute difference in the time of birth would change the ascendent by as much as one degree.
Since finding the correct time of birth is almost impossible, there is a rule in Vedic astrology by which one could correct the time. The rule is that " the positions of moon and the ascendent reverse themselves between the time of birth and that of conception. This has to change and it can only change if we study the ancient scriptures correctly and then apply the modern scientific methods of enquiry to refine the methods of astrology to fit the present situations. The latter requires astrology to be introduced as a subject of scientific enquiry.
I could not care less if one calls it science or art, the end result would be the same. There is nothing special about the word science except the aura built around it by vested interests. Let us not indict astrology without giving a fair trial. Let us use the Scottish Law to pronounce the judgement of " not proven" in the case of astrology being a science or otherwise.
It would be good for the millions who believe in it to see that it is being systematically investigated to get the wheat from the chaff. Long live real scientific temper of enquiry using innocent curiosity. I wish to thank Prof.